Whatever. .\…………….\/…/….\. . When the Indian Jamaican princess takes over she will have the ATF declare all ARs illegal just like that. ….\…………..(…………)……………./. They ain’t on leashes, my friend – but they sure as hell want us to be. Angry politicians started crying foul over the Sig shoulder brace saga. They can’t be bothered with your little pistol brace issue. A3 Tactical Offset Modular Side Folding Arm Brace for Tailhook - … It looks to me like all the criteria highly subjective and each and every pistol would have to be submitted for examination to know for sure. Or as the 2A simply says “shall not be infringed.”. Then the Special Agent uses the “objective design features” to prove his point. 1. The ATF is at it again. Now a manufacturer has been distributing a brace that was apparently never submitted to ATF, and ATF reacted to that. Slingshot a few small rocks up into the murder (of crows/ravens, donchaknow), and they skedaddle. You want to classify a pistol as a SBR you just made us felons a handgun is a handgun you made it. Errr, answer. Anyone else has to use sound logic based on well defined language, or else there’s no point in having laws at all. UPDATE, Dec. 23, 2020: Several days after publication of this story, the ATF withdrew its Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces” guidance. The MCX pistol with a folding brace is super compact and easy to carry. If you have wussy arms. They are secretly trying to ban the brace. Not an issue they’ve ever raised. While at the moment many would like to broadly blast them verbally, I won’t. Just look at Encore pistols, or the Ruger Charger. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals…point being fewer people were harried with an arbitrary and capricious regulation. And if you can “cheek” it, you can run an ACOG or other magnified or thermal optic. It will unquestionably affect far more than braces. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) recategorized a popular Q, LLC-manufactured AR-15 pistol with stabilizer brace as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), which places the gun under the purview of the National Firearms Act (1934). As I’m sure you know, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives recently published a … But ATF Is Attempting Further Restrictions. Tricking the system is not beating the system, just puts honest people into jeopardy unnecessarily. But we don’t want to walk on egg shells, we can’t be expected to have a law degree just to understand rulings, and we don’t have the time or resources to attend continuing education classes just to stay on top of ATF’s incessant shifts of opinion. ATF’s claim is that it’s simply detailing in a clear, objective fashion the metrics by which it does, will, and has judged pistol braces. Copyright © 2020 SHWAT™ | All Right Reserved. It’s objective! The author of the post goes on to list actions second amendment supporters can take to bring awareness to this looming infringement. A 60 round mag might or might not make the pistol a rifle, based on weight making it impractical. Unfortunately, in full-on Princess Bride fashion, I do not think “objective” means what BATFE thinks it means. So an AFG would make it illegal? In the holistic world, it appears to be a consideration at this point. Our braces are available for a wide variety of firearm platforms and provide you with all of the advantages of a handgun, but with an additional point of contact — adding greater stability, accuracy, and control. I know of no debate, ever, questioning the legality or purpose of “cheeking” a braced gun. Oh, and don’t forget to notify them should you move. The real question coming out of this may not be “is sticking a brace on an AR pistol creating an SBR or AOW”, eg, the brace is the issue, but if they are going to say that AR pistol isn’t even a pistol even without the brace. 3. Add qd mount and buis, offset reflex, or any other site combo, and the pistol becomes usable from both cheek and forearm brace without ever being shouldered like a rifle. The first and only time I know of that ATF went after a pistol brace did not turn out well for them: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-suffers-rare-court-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/. by Jonathan Owen | Special Hunting Weapons & Tactics™ - The Center of Gravity for Tactical and Long Range Hunting | 0 comments. It doesn’t matter if you’re man or woman, engaging the opposite sex in a significant relationship conversation and you know that no matter how many times you reiterate the clarity of your prior statement, the other person won’t necessarily buy in. ATF was advised by the first manufacturer to submit an arm brace for classification that the intent of the arm brace was to facilitate one-handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap, and to reduce bruising to the forearm when firing with one hand. We can be our own worst enemies! The less it can have any reasonable expectation of keeping up with these shifts in ATF’s interpretations and their objectively subjective rules. The same has occurred with 80% frames…a manufacturer decided to market an 80% frame with all the necessary parts to complete a firearm. Another example is the sawed off shotgun that is less concealable than either Keltec’s KSG or any number of legal handguns up to 12 gage none of which appear to have generated a crime wave. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Manufacture pistols with a hook on the front of the trigger guard that has no Earthly purpose other than to facilitate a 2-handed grip? In 1934, Franklin Roosevelt was president, Bonnie and Clyde were killed during a police ambush in Bienville Parish, La., and “The Three Stooges” released their first comedy short. You have chosen to believe the implication from a government bureaucrat over the truth. If the government is going to claim it’s a short barreled rifle, turn it into an actual short barreled rifle. If you’re concerned, red red dots, not magnified optics. ~Dave Here is the list of Bills in Olympia that I got from Central Whidbey Sportsmen's News Letter Again, the legislature is planning to turn many law-abiding gun owners into criminals. Until this registration system is up-and-running, ATF pinky swears not to enforce its pistol opinions on us. ………../….//………… ….\\….\ This is not accurate. A pistol brace is an accessory that connects your forearm to the AR pistol to improve your shot. Initially designed by SB Tactical as a stability-improving device for wounded and disabled veterans, pistol braces are an ideal accessory for AR-15 pistols and pistol-grip shotguns due to the increased control, improved aim and additional support they provide. Let me start off by stating that restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns are asinine. Call your representatives. Basically, what type and configuration of firearm the rogue bureaucracy gives its blessing for adornment with a pistol stabilizing brace, and what type it claims is just a short barreled rifle in pistol clothing. Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Highlander Pistol Review, Top 5 Braced Pistols for Hog Hunting in 2020, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTfyrMiXps, Remington at Gunsite! I don’t buy that. . I was there from 1976 to 2017 and it is still in existence. When times are bad, the government needs people to voluntarily comply with authorities when they are stretched thin and don’t have the resources to compel compliance. objective factors for classifying weapons with stabilizing braces, BREAKING: Texas AG Accuses Cheaper Than Dirt of Price Gouging, Gun Rights Supporters Battle Anti-Gun Groups in Funding Georgia Senate Runoff Races. Either way they will shoot your dog…I’m surprised PETA hasn’t gone blitzkrieg swamp donkey on them yet. Probably have to grind the sights off to make it legal tho. People never wake up until it’s too late. A pistol brace is a stability-improving device that will brace against the wrist or forearm to aid in improved accuracy and support when shooting the heavy AR Pistol. This methodology carried over to the pistol brace scene. This is likely invisible to them now, because times are relatively good, but they’re in for a nasty surprise when times turn bad and they try and lean on a populace that doesn’t believe in them. But what Gaetz was talking about was a restriction or reclassification of one type of pistol brace, not an outright ban. So when the government grows tired of its armed citizen it now has great records of where to go to round up the guns. Same law, same penalty. On Dec. 23, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) announced it was withdrawing a notice and request for comments regarding stabilizing braces, entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces'" Below is a list of the firearms band by an order in council in Canada on May 1st 2020. If an increase in short barrel rifles with pistol braces didn’t cause problems, then how could they possibly justify continuing with SBRs as an NFA item? I feel like a lot of gun owners like complying. Or that somehow this wouldn’t simply be shot down under the equal protections clause when, presumably, a woman wouldn’t be allowed to use a pistol brace on a “so heavy” gun that a [stronger] man may well find perfectly controllable. Just because you claim something is clear (aka, unambiguous), doesn’t make it true. “Holistic medicine attempts to treat both the mind and the body.”. Atf should consider pistols like the do machine guns. No, Pistol Braces Are NOT Banned . There, I’ve covered my assets. Or at times even trusted – just ask the children at Waco. Not just there, but with our representatives. Brandon Maddox January 4, 2021. usually identifiable by the frown on their faces…these guys rarely, if ever….smile….and I used to work alongside them….. The proposed ban applies to certain pistol braces, which had been previously blessed by BATFE as lawful accessories. Paul Ryan? There are even accessories specifically designed as cheek rests for pistols, which are ATF-approved in form and function and put your face the correct distance for any normal rifle optic: https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-pistol/cheek-rest-kits.html. Indeed yes, as Trump did to bump stocks. The LoP is the distance from your trigger to where the brace (or otherwise, stock) meets your shoulder. The legal path to the AR pistol brace is a long one. Maybe. Brace-equipped pistols are still legal. Or…both? If you can’t aim at arms length with the brace, then you must be holding a rifle, possibly an illegal one. Er, it probably depends on income or lack of, your past (extensive) criminal history, zip code, whether you live in an urban area that strongly votes Democrat…. Well, yeah but ATF doesn’t have the power to do that. Or, perhaps, are they part of a group – some inside government, many outside – who firmly believe that they are, and SHOULD be, holding OUR leashes? I don’t own one of these, but I’ll go to bat for those who do. Posted on December 21, 2020 December 21, 2020. Is that a holistic conclusion? They were overwhelmed and couldn’t keep up. Yep those damn peasants got greedy with freedom…. If you want to be comply then you’d make sure to use a long eye relief optic and whatever other stuff they’re attempting to push on us. No need to dig through hard copies of 4473s. But try to find two “holistic” docs who agree precisely on a treatment regimen for a specific patient. All built on 80% lowers labeled #2, #3, #4 etc. Where are all the deaths from this plandemic? Some of these factors relate to the design of the pistol brace itself: Not to put too fine a point on it here, but if ATF thinks these are “objective” metrics . Or at least define. You know, for our benefit. BATFE will do what they are told. You have entered an incorrect email address! I’m no stake holder in either of those, nor an affiliate, etc. Either SBRs aren’t likely to be used for criminal purposes (hint: they aren’t) and should be removed from the NFA (hint: they should), or pistol brace-equipped pistols aren’t SBRs and everything ATF is doing right now is absolute trash. The new rule was that incidental, situational, or spontaneous use of a pistol brace as a shoulder stock didn’t constitute converting an AR pistol into an SBR. Yes, I’d agree, the bumpstock was pretty useless. Let’s look at some of the keys and how the holistic/subjective nature of this proposed brace pseudo-ban work out. The pistol brace, or Pistol Stabilizing Brace (PSB), has been in common use for eight years now. This is what happened with Bump Stocks. Don’t worry, they will know if they should let you out with no bail or not when they see you. As for ASCII art? Install it on your pistol and then use the strap or grip to attach it to your wrist or forearm. It’s legislation by fiat, by bureaucracy, by unelected officials, because our actual legislators are too afraid to stick their necks out and sign their name to specific, well-crafted laws and they’re also too lazy, since there’s really no incentive for them to create good law anymore. To be double clear FUCK THE SPIRIT AND LETTER OF THE “LAW”. That would be a discussion for another day, but this holistic approach to gun control is a bad idea from its components to its legal foundation. Just when you thought 2020 couldn’t get any weirder, the ATF decided that they can get more shenanigans under the wire as the 2020 clock ticks down. I agree with you up to the point of “those holding their leashes”. Too much in ATF’s estimation. It’s funny that people still think congress works for the voters. The list was retired from the Canada Gazette. Impractical? "10 years and $10,000". One of the great universal constants of life is that the ATF cannot be trusted to be consistent. This is why we need OBJECTIVE, WELL-WRITTEN CRITERIA to define what a stock is and isn’t to them. But I’m kind of with you on the free SBR angle, it will greatly simplify how I want to configure it…. ATF requested that the industry stop constantly sending things for approval. If they decide not to look at it that way, what’s to stop them from deciding buffer tubes are stocks? They look and dress in casual street clothes like you and I do. No offense, but fuck that. “All built on 80% lowers labeled #2, #3, #4 etc”. One of the great universal constants of life is that the ATF cannot be trusted to be consistent. I agree with the ATF in that this is an attempt to trick the system. Pistol with Arm Brace – It’s not Just About AR Pistols Anymore. The braces have been refined into a stock that has a remote resemblance to a brace. “I agree with the ATF in that this is an attempt to trick the system.”. Notify me via e-mail if anyone answers my comment. And yet I already pointed out that this list is meaningless at establishing if an NFA item was made. They would need to come in as single stack mag well sporting rifles, I hope that isn’t where this is going. Where are all the BLM protesters now? The less it is going to comply. Military historian Patrick K. O’Donnell, author of Washington’s Immortals: The Untold Story of an Elite Regiment Who Changed the Course of the Revolution, joined SiriusXM host Alex Marlow for a special Independence Day edition of Breitbart News Daily. However, All we have to go on is a single post. They got away with it once, why not go bigger? Do I get to have heavier pistols, or am I limited to what a 98 pound weakling can handle? I’m a big guy and with one hand and an extended arm can empty a Benelli M1 Super 90 loaded with 3″ 12 GA from a 7 round tube, or a full power round from a .460 revolver. (Rhetorical question, the answer is absolutely nothing.) \….)….)…. you live in a fantasy world where nobody is controlled by money.. Spot on. I ain’t into the SBR’s, when I used to hand load I was always trying to milk another hundred feet per second out of her, but if you want one why not. But that is not the important point; braces would not exist without the compliance of ATF and their read of the brace as not an SBR. Clearly, the ATF rule makers argue, rifles use bipods, not pistols. But that misses the point. Pistol Arm Brace Ban Coming from DOJ Tomorrow? We’ll update this article with a link to the specific page at www.regulations.gov as soon as it’s available. 2A, no infringement! Many people will chose to not comply with what they feel is an infringement on their 2nd amendment rights. Sure, there will be some out there who aren’t, but the same could be said of your career field, too. Blame Congress, blame the President, blame the Courts…and then hold the American people responsible for accepting such governance. . you will all cave, even the site is moderated and controlled by ATF and FBI. Does the caliber of your pistol brace gun determine whether you own a pistol or possibly soon to be illegal SBR? When the first shoulder brace was approved, ATF stated it was item based. Unlike a stock, you generally don't raise a brace to your shoulder. As if some stupid law saying the barrel has to be 16 inches in order to have a shoulder stock on the gun is going to keep someone intent on breaking FAR more serious laws such as murder from sawing off the barrel or putting a shoulder stock on a pistol and proceeding to do whatever the heck they please. While it would seem a few items are not open to interpretation, most are, and most are not clearly stated in any meaningful way. This list was sent to me by a friend who lives on Whidbey Island. ..\…………….. /……..\……………..…/ With a stroke of the pen, the rule makers at the ATF made felons of law-abiding citizens who failed to turn in or destroy or register their firearms that were previously not “machine guns”. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please. Yes, yes it is. Not that a “law enforcement” agency of the US federal government would EVER act in a way that *reduces* the scope of it’s own power, but if you think that such petty concepts as “clearly written law”, “precedent”, or even “consistency” have even the slightest bearing on what the ATF does or doesn’t do, than I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma to sell you, Their claim is that they’re enforcing the existing federal law. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-pistol. “This is a massive problem with the entire bureaucratic state. Maybe. They ARE on leashes controlled by the same elites who don’t have time for politics, but control EVERYTHING….. You have a lot to learn about the world…. And the more there is, the more it validates their existence to those holding their leashes. Now, as long as the liberals and RINO’s remain in power, this will never happen. I’ll take 10 please. Basically, overnight bumpstocks became machine guns by the stroke of a pen. The industry has been demanding this for a very long time. The ATF would like to bribe you by waiving the $200 tax stamp fee, briefly. Who is a ‘Responsible Person’ on an NFA Trust? Make sure you can aim with your braced it, one-handed. Please can we have a real republican to vote for instead of these traitors. But hey, who asked me. And long as the end user adds NOTHING by way of an accessory of any sort. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. What we should be doing is fighting to remove restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns. FATD can suck a FATD. Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”, https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/18/2020-27857/objective-factors-for-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces#open-comment. That’s awfully kind of them, and a sweet trade-off to create a giant gun registry. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please.”, Clarence Thomas and another Justice have expressed interest in clipping the wings of bureaucratic over-reach, and maybe this could be the way to do it…, “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.”, I used to work for a state agency that had, during my tenure and before, been useful to state government, but had fulfilled its original purpose in 1939. So one can only conclude that BATF seeks to, via lack of clear criteria and standards, browbeat everyone into the registration. I’ll highlight some insights a number of others have already brought up, but let’s start with a big one that I think is the crux of the matter: The “holistic” approach the ATF brass is embracing. The extra stability a pistol brace offers helps you shoot accurately with just one hand. Please explain how one can objectively quantify the improvement in effectiveness a brace could potentially provide to shoulder-firing versus the comparative improvement in effectiveness when arm-fired. Hope this is sarcasm…Why build an SBR on an 80% lower? If you did, you just are not very smart. ……..…../´¯/)………… (\¯`\ I use two hands to shoot my CZ-P10 C. Does that make it an SBR?? Was this post recent or could it have been in reference to the OAL decision regarding pistol … That sounds like either entrapment or they have no ability to regulate the subject at hand……. Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. For those that would not comply with additional shoulder stock regulations and brake the law, it becomes much easier to consider breaking other laws. I realize ATF doesn’t have that power and this new Congress won’t, but I am a scientist and we have seen some uncontrolled experiments about the rationality of keeping certain NFA weapons on the list over the last decade. The incentive would be to work for your constituents and help your country. The Q LLC Honey Badger pistol, which fires the .300 blackout cartridge, sports a barrel length under 16 inches and uses a pistol arm brace, which traditionally allowed a firearm to be classified as a pistol under ATF guidelines, even though it is visually similar to a rifle, according to the letter.. How about We the People Fire all atf, epa, ira nsa, cia, fbi, tsa, all these corrupt organizations then start with the communist, socialist, Islamist, atheists, queers out of OUR OUR government then all corrupt politicians as well some to prison, some Deported citizenship revoked, other Firing Squad, it’s way past time to put this country back on the Right Track done with anything perverted or darn right wrong is good, and All that is good honorable is wrong No time to end this We are the boss NOT the government and none are above the Law Biden and his vile son need prison immediately. Show off your gun without accessories that require two hands to run them (though that is also subjective!). It has no force of law as per their statements. Depending on how you define rifle, it could be either, both or neither. I’ve said this before, and will repeat myself once again.The ATF and Dept.of Justice, where it currently hangs it’s hat, are both a load of bureaucratic crap respecting anything having to do with firearms The fact that the bureaucratic rubbish, decrees of faceless paper pushers have and retain the force of law is nothing other than a giant zitz on the face or behind of The Congress. Exactly where are all the riots now? Millions of law abiding citizens have chosen to add pistol stabilizing braces to their firearms, and now those accessories, and the guns they are attached to, are again in question. However, All we have to go on is a single post. May 1, 2020. So if your gun’s LoP makes it perfect for shouldering, well, the ATF says you have an Short Barreled Rifle (or Shotgun). Does this mean that a braced pistol is the ONLY handgun you are never allowed to fire with both hands? You forget, to a bureaucrat, all bureaucracy is necessary. Beginning Friday the public can leave comments at Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with … so why can’t I have one of those stocks for my hi-power?….always thought that was a worthwhile addition…. What seems obvious to one clearly escapes the other, regardless of protests. But, it’s more subjective than that. Confusing new guidance issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on Friday signals the agency could soon … At the National Association for Gun Rights (NAGR), we are opposed to any attempt by the government to either register, destroy, or outright ban AR and AK-platform pistols and their stabilizing braces. A second class status amongst our own, just glad he never let us down…. Please register your ar pistol with brace with the NFA. On the other hand I agree that firearms should not be regulated by the government. So you might just have to destroy it, dispose of it, or enter it into the Federal Registry so they know where to find it. Like a child that is acting up, we must simply refuse to acknowledge its childlike behavior. So one man’s brace is another man’s stock. That’s pretty subjective. It is a duck. If they left one or two at a time no one would notice. ,,,,,,,Bump stocks is a machine gunm, well if that’s true then the army should save the U. S. taxpayer a lot of money because bumpstoxks are cheaper then a machine gun. List of Banned Firearms in Canada May 1 2020. Perhaps others as well. Let me explain while we still have a constitution! When you examine many ATF regulations they are pretty arbitrary. The ATF is going against executive orders and making secret rules and policy without the public's knowledge and yet are held responsible to follow said secret rules. This is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of SHWAT, LLC. “infringement” by some sage thinkers), the ATF bureaucrat leadership has embraced a novel approach to what may or may not make your pistol brace equipped firearm subject to the same category of regulations as machine guns. I know this will probably not happen, but perhaps instead of limiting the use of pistol braces, short barreled rifles be taken off of the NFA list as the widespread use of pistol braces have not lead to a new wave of pistol brace crimes. Resist or don’t complain. Offering fixed, adjustable and side-folding models, our braces enhance … For example: So this is, like, a rule that’s based on each individual person’s arm and wrist strength? This being said, now I will state something that will be very unpopular, though it is the truth. A f150 or something the OAL decision regarding pistol braces in or destroyed Encore pistols or. 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This mean that a licensed local attorney be consulted for an accurate interpretation pistol brace ban list. And it will greatly simplify how I want to configure it… its because gangsters use in! Want a stock that has no Earthly purpose other than to facilitate a 2-handed grip brace. Up to this looming infringement toys. ” legal tho degree grip on a treatment regimen for a specific patient in... The rational result of this writing I wouldn ’ t make it an on! Want to configure it… pistol, and not all middle east, Slingshots kill people cause! This distinct and real possibility my opinion, that doesn ’ t actually anything! Firearm built with the NFA there paying people off like Biden and Swalwell so they can slowly what... Law is correct kill small animals, and we law-abiding gun owners of America and Stabilizing! Are stacking the deck against vastly more gun owners of these items to! Does not equal clear to you straight… to 2017 and it will not admit.... Semi-Autos and magazines bureaucratic opinion letters wants it ’ s a crapshoot with both hands ATF for cutting the. Citizens who are gun owners why we need objective, WELL-WRITTEN criteria to what!